Is the Rav 4 Easy for Elderly to Enter and Exit

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 am

My recently retired mother was in a car accident the other day. Fortunately she and the other driver were fine. She was making a left turn onto a busy road when an oncoming car from the left struck the left rear of her vehicle. She's a careful driver, but of course we worry as she gets older.

She drove a Honda Element (with their version of AWD), which she really enjoyed, mostly for its trunk space, although I don't think it's a particularly good car for someone her age, who no longer commutes to work, doesn't do road trips, nor does she have dogs or other things to keep in the back. 90% of her driving is to the store or church. I think she liked how easy it was to get in and out of the car, in terms of the height of the Element. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I wonder about the visibility in that car. She lives in an area that gets occasional winter snow, and AWD could be useful.

I think a CUV type of vehicle would probably suit her best. We are considering a Subaru Forester (we hear there's good visibility) and an Outback for the AWD and wagon shape (not sure what the difference is between the two), though not sure about reliability. Also considering a used Toyota Venza (2015 was last year), mainly for the size, safety, optional AWD, and V6 engine option. Not sure if it's too tall to get out of, she's about 5'4". They also have a Honda Odyssey and a CR-V in the family, so it's possible she could start using the CR-V if they get a separate vehicle for my dad. She doesn't like how long the mini-vans are. She doesn't know much about vehicles, and wants a recommendation from us.

Any other cars, or must-have options we should consider? Definitely don't have the budget for a luxury vehicle.

Post by **Rupert** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am

My 70+ year old mother just bought a bright white Toyota Rav4. She likes the height (easy to get in and out -- a sedan was a no-go for her given her bad back and knees), how well she can see out of it, and how well others can see it (it's VERY bright white). She was also recently hit by another driver in her old car, which was green, and insisted on a more brightly-colored new car despite the fact that the evidence is sorta mixed on the question whether the color of your car affects accident rates. Anyway, it's worth a look.

Edited to note that my mother is short (around 5'2") and can still see out of the Rav4 very well.

Post by **pochax** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am

more importantly than the brand you end up with, the level of safety features and the visibility (can only really learn by test drive) is more important. i believe Toyota now puts the new safety tech as standard and most car companies are putting it in lower trims (not just the premium trim levels). in the same class as Subaru Forester (which is a good model with the EyeSight tech), consider Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, and Mazda CX-5. all should have the safety tech available on some of their trim levels. The key safety tech to look for are: Forward Collision warning systems (will alarm and brake if the car senses you are about to hit another car in front of you), lane-depature warning and/or assist, blind-spot monitoring system, rear-cross traffic alert system (alarms if it detects a moving object coming close to you when you are in reverse). there are probably other nice features as well exclusive to each brand.

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:31 am

Rupert wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am My 70+ year old mother just bought a bright white Toyota Rav4. She likes the height (easy to get in and out -- a sedan was a no-go for her given her bad back and knees), how well she can see out of it, and how well others can see it (it's VERY bright white). She was also recently hit by another driver in her old car, which was green, and insisted on a more brightly-colored new car despite the fact that the evidence is sorta mixed on the question whether the color of your car affects accident rates. Anyway, it's worth a look.

Edited to note that my mother is short (around 5'2") and can still see out of the Rav4 very well.

Rupert, I had not thought of color, but this does make some sense. Thanks for that input. I forgot about the Rav4, so we will put that on the list. Any packages that included safety features you or your mother have found helpful?

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:35 am

pochax wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am more importantly than the brand you end up with, the level of safety features and the visibility (can only really learn by test drive) is more important. i believe Toyota now puts the new safety tech as standard and most car companies are putting it in lower trims (not just the premium trim levels). in the same class as Subaru Forester (which is a good model with the EyeSight tech), consider Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, and Mazda CX-5. all should have the safety tech available on some of their trim levels. The key safety tech to look for are: Forward Collision warning systems (will alarm and brake if the car senses you are about to hit another car in front of you), lane-depature warning and/or assist, blind-spot monitoring system, rear-cross traffic alert system (alarms if it detects a moving object coming close to you when you are in reverse). there are probably other nice features as well exclusive to each brand.

I definitely like the idea of forward collision prevention systems and lane-departure warning. I sometimes wonder, though, if some of the tech would actually be detrimental to some seniors. I remember renting a nice Chevy Tahoe earlier this year, and it had a lane departure feature, as well as seat vibration to warn you of some kind of danger. In practice, however, it would shake my seat at random moments and cause alarm for reasons I could not determine.

Post by **baconavocado** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 am

I can't recommend a specific vehicle but I would just add a cautionary note about buying a new vehicle for a senior. My mother's 25-y old American car gave out when she was in her 80s and had just begun showing early signs of dementia. I helped her buy a brand new car. It was a MAJOR struggle for her to figure out all the new electronic controls, even the interior gas door release, let alone door locks, push button start, shifting on the console rather than the column, etc., etc. So my advice is, when replacing a car for an older senior citizen, consider how difficult it will be for them to learn to drive a modern car and try to find one that's similar to the one they're used to operating. It's a real problem because at that age you want them to have a car that has all the modern safety features available on new cars, but if they can't easily drive it, they can't get food, get to social gatherings, or get to the doctor.

Post by **Rupert** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:46 am

angelescrest wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:31 am

Rupert wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am My 70+ year old mother just bought a bright white Toyota Rav4. She likes the height (easy to get in and out -- a sedan was a no-go for her given her bad back and knees), how well she can see out of it, and how well others can see it (it's VERY bright white). She was also recently hit by another driver in her old car, which was green, and insisted on a more brightly-colored new car despite the fact that the evidence is sorta mixed on the question whether the color of your car affects accident rates. Anyway, it's worth a look.

Edited to note that my mother is short (around 5'2") and can still see out of the Rav4 very well.

Rupert, I had not thought of color, but this does make some sense. Thanks for that input. I forgot about the Rav4, so we will put that on the list. Any packages that included safety features you or your mother have found helpful?

We didn't buy any special packages. She picked the middle trim level and just the standard safety features. Her previous car was also a Toyota; so she is very familiar and comfortable with those features. I think the idea of sticking with what you know or sticking with simple controls has some merit when dealing with this particular demographic. I say that even though my mother exhibits no signs of dementia. What she does exhibit is a stubborn refusal to learn new technologies.

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:58 am

baconavocado wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 am So my advice is, when replacing a car for an older senior citizen, consider how difficult it will be for them to learn to drive a modern car and try to find one that's similar to the one they're used to operating. It's a real problem because at that age you want them to have a car that has all the modern safety features available on new cars, but if they can't easily drive it, they can't get food, get to social gatherings, or get to the doctor.

Good advice, and I agree. It's why I'm skeptical about some of these features, especially things that vibrate, beep loudly, or something else that might scare her into swerving her car or something else. My mom is not savvy with new tech; has never had a smartphone and can't really use the iPad we bought her. But she's an ace in the kitchen and garden, and can find a vein better than any nurse on this side of the Rockies.

Post by **dm200** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:25 pm

In my opinion and experience, it can be important to have a seat and view that fits the height of the driver. A power seat can be very worthwhile. Check ot the height/fit for her on the vehicle she chooses.

Post by **Alexa9** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:28 pm

I would say a large sedan: Toyota Avalon. Or SUV if they like to sit higher: Toyota Highlander. Although most older folks tend to gravitate towards Buick and Lincoln for some reason.

Post by **denovo** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 pm

FraggleRock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:27 pm Uber
Lyft
taxi

This is the right answer. If someone has problems driving, a new car is not the fix.

Post by **KT785** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:56 pm

"Recently retired" is how OP described his mother and accordingly, I assume she's on the younger side of being a senior (60s?). Accordingly, I'm not sure all of the admonitions in this thread about her age and technology being too much of a hurdle are necessarily applicable--also, people of all ages have accidents so the Uber, Lyft, Taxi stuff seems a bit heavy-handed.

I own a 2017 Subaru Outback with Eyesight and am extremely pleased (though I'm only 30 so my experience will be different from your mother). I'd also look at the Forrester because you're spot on re: its visibility being incredible. I'd also take a look at the Crosstrek since you indicate she didn't/doesn't need the space that she had in the Element. In any event, I'd get the Eyesight package if she opts for a Subaru--it works very well and helped me avoid an accident a few weeks ago when it caught the guy in-front of me slamming on his brakes suddenly before I was able to do so, bringing my car to a complete stop.

Post by **pshonore** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

Post by **Sandtrap** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm

90+FIL recently passed. WWII vet.
Went on a car purchase before he died. He was still mobile and his old car was tired out.
What his priorities ended up being though he didn't voice them, we found out through shopping:

New cars were overwhelming in complexity. His old car was a pontiac vibe. (toyota clone)
Visibility
Upright seat and large opening so easy ingress and exit without stooping
Height of seat and eye level relative to the street was important, no low cars where you look out and see the sides of cars.
Comfortable seat with a wide range of adjustments
No thick rear quarter panels or roof pillars
No severely sloping windshield to distort vision, also rear vision.
Easy access to the trunk or hatch without stooping or lifting over a lip.
Four doors not two
Size: Ended up with a Kia Soul.

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:34 pm

denovo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 pm

FraggleRock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:27 pm Uber
Lyft
taxi

This is the right answer. If someone has problems driving, a new car is not the fix.

Nope, you're wrong. You clearly didn't read the original post, or you don't know what ageism is. I intentionally didn't imply fault in my post as it's beside the point of choosing a vehicle. Would you have written the same thing if I didn't write "senior", or "mother"? Seniors are among the safest drivers on the road. FWIW, the oncoming car was going twice the speed limit, and the driver was 20.

Post by **angelescrest** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:38 pm

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What a great article, thank you! And for the tips on the Outback. One of my colleagues is in his 80's with recent surgeries. I should ask him about his Outback. The Forester is sounding nice.

Post by **tcassette** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 am

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What is your opinion based on? I sit medium high (higher than a regular sedan, lower than a truck or SUV) in my Outback, and it is very easy to get in and out of. I'm not especially tall (5'8") or especially old (66). The seats have good adjustment range, as does the steering wheel.

You can't base a vehicle choice on recommendations alone; actually test driving them is essential.

Post by **The Wizard** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:52 am

I'm 67, so I suppose I'm a Senior.
I have an F-150 pickup and a Mustang that I drive and I like them both.
But I'm an experienced driver, both urban and rural conditions.
And I have good Situational Awareness when I drive, using all three mirrors, my turn signals, and keeping my speed up to the prevailing level in unfamiliar areas.
I also use my smartphone GPS nav in unfamiliar areas to anticipate my next turn smoothly.

So I'm not sure what the question is.
If we're talking deteriorating driving skills (or driving skills that were never honed for urban situations), then I'm not sure what the answer is.
If we're talking about a comfortable vehicle with all the latest safety bells and whistles, then there's lots of choices and age is almost no issue at all...

Post by **mouses** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:08 am

I talked to my ortho doc about the getting in and out of cars problem and his advice was to mess with the height and seat tilt controls. I now do this as a matter of course each time. I also find it easier to enter a car by sitting facing out from the side and then swing my legs in together.

I love my daily driver, although it is getting to be a money pit repairwise. It's an old Buick, built like a tank, with lots of room in the front. I had the center console removed, so it's easy to slide things like a pet carrier onto the passenger's seat. There is no back seat console, so that makes the whole seat much easier for groceries. Center consoles are a bad idea.

Post by **pshonore** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:04 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 am

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What is your opinion based on? I sit medium high (higher than a regular sedan, lower than a truck or SUV) in my Outback, and it is very easy to get in and out of. I'm not especially tall (5'8") or especially old (66). The seats have good adjustment range, as does the steering wheel.

You can't base a vehicle choice on recommendations alone; actually test driving them is essential.

Its based on owning an Outback for 4 years and the fact that I'm 6'2". Its actually my wife's main vehicle. I drive a Ford Expedition so perhaps I'm spoiled. If you doubt me, I suggest you put something 6" high on top of your head and try getting in and out of your Subaru.

Post by **tcassette** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm

pshonore wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:04 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 am

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What is your opinion based on? I sit medium high (higher than a regular sedan, lower than a truck or SUV) in my Outback, and it is very easy to get in and out of. I'm not especially tall (5'8") or especially old (66). The seats have good adjustment range, as does the steering wheel.

You can't base a vehicle choice on recommendations alone; actually test driving them is essential.

Its based on owning an Outback for 4 years and the fact that I'm 6'2". Its actually my wife's main vehicle. I drive a Ford Expedition so perhaps I'm spoiled. If you doubt me, I suggest you put something 6" high on top of your head and try getting in and out of your Subaru.

OK, I get that for someone your height, headroom is a big deal. However, comparing specifications, the Outback (w/o moonroof) and Forester actually have slightly more front seat headroom than the Expedition. Maybe, because you climb up into an Expedition rather than laterally into the Subaru, ingress and egress is easier in the Ford. Moot point, because OP is asking about a vehicle for a 5'2" person. My point stands that sitting in and driving a vehicle is the only way to know for sure if it fits.

Post by **GmanJeff** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:51 pm

baconavocado wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 am I can't recommend a specific vehicle but I would just add a cautionary note about buying a new vehicle for a senior. My mother's 25-y old American car gave out when she was in her 80s and had just begun showing early signs of dementia. I helped her buy a brand new car. It was a MAJOR struggle for her to figure out all the new electronic controls, even the interior gas door release, let alone door locks, push button start, shifting on the console rather than the column, etc., etc. So my advice is, when replacing a car for an older senior citizen, consider how difficult it will be for them to learn to drive a modern car and try to find one that's similar to the one they're used to operating. It's a real problem because at that age you want them to have a car that has all the modern safety features available on new cars, but if they can't easily drive it, they can't get food, get to social gatherings, or get to the doctor.

This. Car features and controls have evolved rapidly, and older drivers may (or may not be) be both frustrated and less safe in vehicles which generate warnings and have controls unlike what they are familiar with. That can negate the value of modern safety systems, which elderly drivers may ignore or fail to recognize as alerts and warnings. Additionally, systems and options you may pay for may go unused due to their complexity, reducing or eliminating the value paid for them. Obviously, this depends on the individual, and may be inapplicable in the case of the driver to whom the OP refers, but this is a consideration for many.

Post by **angelescrest** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:08 pm

The Wizard wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:52 am So I'm not sure what the question is.

The question is: Are there factors should we consider in purchasing a vehicle for a senior driver, and if so, what are they? Everybody has preferences and needs, and I'd like to know if seniors can give us input that we have not thought of.

Several points I'm getting here:
1) Visibility is very important
2) Seat height is also important, in relationship to visibility, and in getting in and out of the car. I am assuming that means some cars are too low and difficult to get in, but alternatively, are some too high?
3) Advanced technology can be a problem for much older drivers.

Post by **pshonore** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:25 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm

pshonore wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:04 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 am

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What is your opinion based on? I sit medium high (higher than a regular sedan, lower than a truck or SUV) in my Outback, and it is very easy to get in and out of. I'm not especially tall (5'8") or especially old (66). The seats have good adjustment range, as does the steering wheel.

You can't base a vehicle choice on recommendations alone; actually test driving them is essential.

Its based on owning an Outback for 4 years and the fact that I'm 6'2". Its actually my wife's main vehicle. I drive a Ford Expedition so perhaps I'm spoiled. If you doubt me, I suggest you put something 6" high on top of your head and try getting in and out of your Subaru.

OK, I get that for someone your height, headroom is a big deal. However, comparing specifications, the Outback (w/o moonroof) and Forester actually have slightly more front seat headroom than the Expedition. Maybe, because you climb up into an Expedition rather than laterally into the Subaru, ingress and egress is easier in the Ford. Moot point, because OP is asking about a vehicle for a 5'2" person. My point stands that sitting in and driving a vehicle is the only way to know for sure if it fits.

Actually I think the critical measurement is from the ground to the top of the door frame opening. That determines how much "twisting" one must do. That measurement is usually not available though. Agree with the road test but you need to a long one to check comfort. I know after a two hour ride in the Subaru, I am stiff as a board when I exit.

Post by **Da5id** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:04 pm

As a separate issue from the safety features make sure the car is easy to enter and exit. My parents found their luxury sedan was too low to the ground as they got less flexible, but that their Rav4 was much easier to enter/exit. They also found the level of the Rav4 trunk, higher than a sedan, made it easier to get groceries and such in/out of the car. And the higher vantage point can't hurt visibility either.

Hoping for self driving cars sooner rather than later myself, huge win for elderly drivers who probably should be handing in their keys but resist due to loss of freedom.

Post by **munemaker** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm

munemaker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:40 pm Buick

OK, a little research here. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... /16587437/

Look at the unit sales for number 3 on the list:

These are the cars with the oldest buyers.

1. Lincoln

> Avg. age of buyer: 61.0 years
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 81,694
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): -0.6%

Registered Lincoln buyers were older than those of any other car brand. Last year, the average age of a Lincoln owner was 61 years old. Like other domestic makes, Lincoln, Ford's (NYSE: F) luxury brand had its heyday several decades ago, and it has struggled to compete as imported brands have successfully drawn in younger customers. The cost of a Lincoln, however, is not completely out of reach, as its prices tend to be on the lower end compared to other luxury makes. Brands like Lincoln are desperate to get younger buyers, as some of their relatively old current customers may never buy another car. Lincoln sold 81,694 vehicles last year, down slightly from 2012 levels.

2. Buick

> Avg. age of buyer: 60.3 years
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 205,509
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): 13.9%

With an average customer age of 60.3 years, Buick's clientele is older than that of any other non-luxury vehicle. Buick has struggled more than other brands to move away from its image as an older driver's brand. Still, Buick has been successfully improving its brand by adding cars that appeal more to younger buyers, according to Brauer. Two SUVs, the full-size Enclave and compact Encore, have done particularly well, Brauer said. Additionally, while Buick is not considered a luxury brand, its latest Regal model may provide a more affordable alternative to BMW and Mercedes-Benz sedans.

MORE: 10 best technology companies to work for

3. Bugatti

> Avg. age of buyer: 59.5 years (tied-3rd highest)
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 1
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): -50.0%

Super-car maker Bugatti's target market is already extremely exclusive. The high age of the brand's customer is likely less a question of preference and more an issue of accessibility. Car and Driver describes the target customer of a Bugatti Veyron, with its estimated price tag of nearly $2 million, as "those with all the money in the world and a desire to go blisteringly fast." KBB figures indicate just one Bugatti was sold in the U.S. last year. Luxury cars often appeal to customers who have the means to treat themselves, and purchasing a Bugatti is perhaps the ultimate luxury expense.

MORE: Retailers hiring the most employees for the holidays

4. Cadillac

> Avg. age of buyer: 59.5 years (tied-3rd highest)
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 182,543
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): 21.9%

Cadillac's aging clientele may reflect General Motors' (NYSE: GM) recent challenges. While the younger generations may mostly remember GM's bankruptcy, many of Cadillac's customers likely remember a time when GM was the indisputable number one car company in America. And although the company still leads the nation in terms of market share, its position is much more tenuous. Still, Cadillac was one of the fastest growing luxury brands last year, with U.S. sales up more than 21% in 2013 versus the year before. This year, however, sales have dropped off considerably. GM recently announced it will move Cadillac's headquarters from Detroit to New York next year, in order to distinguish the brand from its parent and establish a better rapport with luxury buyers.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm

I removed an off-topic comment and a reply. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette

We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.

...Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.

Post by **angelescrest** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 pm

pshonore wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:25 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm

pshonore wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:04 pm

tcassette wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 am

pshonore wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:32 pm Do not get an Outback if she likes to sit high. Outbacks are not easy to get in out for old folks, especially tall ones. DAMHIKT. Forester might be a better choice and also cheaper. There is definitely a learning curve with today's new vehicles.

What is your opinion based on? I sit medium high (higher than a regular sedan, lower than a truck or SUV) in my Outback, and it is very easy to get in and out of. I'm not especially tall (5'8") or especially old (66). The seats have good adjustment range, as does the steering wheel.

You can't base a vehicle choice on recommendations alone; actually test driving them is essential.

Its based on owning an Outback for 4 years and the fact that I'm 6'2". Its actually my wife's main vehicle. I drive a Ford Expedition so perhaps I'm spoiled. If you doubt me, I suggest you put something 6" high on top of your head and try getting in and out of your Subaru.

OK, I get that for someone your height, headroom is a big deal. However, comparing specifications, the Outback (w/o moonroof) and Forester actually have slightly more front seat headroom than the Expedition. Maybe, because you climb up into an Expedition rather than laterally into the Subaru, ingress and egress is easier in the Ford. Moot point, because OP is asking about a vehicle for a 5'2" person. My point stands that sitting in and driving a vehicle is the only way to know for sure if it fits.

Actually I think the critical measurement is from the ground to the top of the door frame opening. That determines how much "twisting" one must do. That measurement is usually not available though. Agree with the road test but you need to a long one to check comfort. I know after a two hour ride in the Subaru, I am stiff as a board when I exit.

Are you talking separately about the comfort of the seats and interior space, vs entering/exiting? I get with your height, the latter is a problem. It after two hours, are you stiff because the interior is uncomfortable? My mother is 5'4", and in very good physical health and mobility.

Post by **Calli114** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 pm

I am on my 2nd Outback and have driven a Forester multiple times as a service loaner and a test drive.
The Outback is built more solidly, but the Forester does have good visibility for the driver. I've had knee surgery and have no problem at all getting in and out of either. I see many retirees in Outbacks these days.

Post by **dbr** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:06 am

I bought an Outback a couple of years ago mainly starting with trying find a vehicle one can see out of with some minimal ease. I find that car to be a very good height for ingress/egress, neither too low as with a typical sedan nor too high as with many large SUVs. Seating comfort in the Outback has been a source of complaint for some, especially over-agressive lumbar support. I have found the issue is very sensitive to seat adjustment, especially reducing lumbar to minimum and not leaving the seat too upright. I am very comfortable in this vehicle for six hours or more of continuous driving.

The fact remains that the outcome is individual and needs to be tried to make a decision.

In my area I would say CUV's of this general class are a leading choice for seniors, other choices being Camry's, Accords, Lexus sedans, and maybe things along the lines of a Prius.

Post by **angelescrest** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 am

dbr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:06 am I bought an Outback a couple of years ago mainly starting with trying find a vehicle one can see out of with some minimal ease. I find that car to be a very good height for ingress/egress, neither too low as with a typical sedan nor too high as with many large SUVs. Seating comfort in the Outback has been a source of complaint for some, especially over-agressive lumbar support. I have found the issue is very sensitive to seat adjustment, especially reducing lumbar to minimum and not leaving the seat too upright. I am very comfortable in this vehicle for six hours or more of continuous driving.

The fact remains that the outcome is individual and needs to be tried to make a decision.

In my area I would say CUV's of this general class are a leading choice for seniors, other choices being Camry's, Accords, Lexus sedans, and maybe things along the lines of a Prius.

We will go to the Subaru dealer first, and see what she thinks. Appreciate the input.

Post by **Slacker** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:41 am

It seems from those reports that the primary driver in their lower accident rates is that they more astutely come to the realization of when their skills are declining to unsafe levels and make the definite decision to stop driving, in general, as a group. The numbers for drivers over 80 were not very confidence inspiring though. I would also posit the hypothesis that the driving situation for drivers 60+ is completely different (once again in aggregate) as compared to the driving situation for drivers that are 25-59, i.e. - driving in rush hour traffic over many miles vs driving when there is much lower overall traffic on the roads and potentially at lower speeds a greater percentage of the time where everyone has more time to react and finally with lower overall distances driven (less fatigue in the driving situation).

I would suggest, that spending more money for any driver (80+ senior and teenager especially) to get a vehicle with blind spot monitoring, rear back up camera and automatic emergency braking would be worthwhile. Parking sensors are also very handy. Now, if only I can convince my wife that the brand new teenage driver in our household *should* be driving our brand new car because of the safety features instead of our older inexpensive compact just because it is cheaper to crash.

Post by **dbr** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:49 am

I should add that I really appreciate the safety features now common on most new cars. Probably the most useful day to day is the backup warning feature that can see crossing traffic as you try to back out of a space. It also picks up pedestrians that might be walking in your potential path, especially helpful in parking lots at night.

Post by **DrGoogle2017** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:50 am

Slacker wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:41 am

It seems from those reports that the primary driver in their lower accident rates is that they more astutely come to the realization of when their skills are declining to unsafe levels and make the definite decision to stop driving, in general, as a group. The numbers for drivers over 80 were not very confidence inspiring though. I would also posit the hypothesis that the driving situation for drivers 60+ is completely different (once again in aggregate) as compared to the driving situation for drivers that are 25-59, i.e. - driving in rush hour traffic over many miles vs driving when there is much lower overall traffic on the roads and potentially at lower speeds a greater percentage of the time where everyone has more time to react and finally with lower overall distances driven (less fatigue in the driving situation).

I would suggest, that spending more money for any driver (80+ senior and teenager especially) to get a vehicle with blind spot monitoring, rear back up camera and automatic emergency braking would be worthwhile. Parking sensors are also very handy. Now, if only I can convince my wife that the brand new teenage driver in our household *should* be driving our brand new car because of the safety features instead of our older inexpensive compact just because it is cheaper to crash.

I agree with the last paragraph. As a bad driver with very good driving record, 40 years with no accident, the key thing is I'm a very cautious driver. But I found the blind spot monitor and rear back up camera most helpful. I don't think I have emergency braking yet.

Post by **mouses** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:10 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:50 am
It seems from those reports that the primary driver in their lower accident rates is that they more astutely come to the realization of when their skills are declining to unsafe levels and make the definite decision to stop driving, in general, as a group.

We also use seat belts, speed less, and don't have our faces glued to smart phones.

Post by **S&L1940** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:21 pm

We are pushing/nearing 80 and plan to start leasing once our 10 yo car becomes a maintenance burden
Thinking leasing is the way to go and a Forester or similar style a nice fit for our 6'2" and 5'2" heights

Post by **Slacker** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:50 pm

mouses wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:10 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:50 am
It seems from those reports that the primary driver in their lower accident rates is that they more astutely come to the realization of when their skills are declining to unsafe levels and make the definite decision to stop driving, in general, as a group.

We also use seat belts, speed less, and don't have our faces glued to smart phones.

You quoted the wrong person.

Seat belts don't play in the statistics on those links (crash numbers not fatality numbers). I bet there are numbers out there for distracted driving caused accidents.

I did mention lower speeds also being a factor that can be favorable for avoiding accidents (increased response time). However, a major cause of accidents is speed incompatibility (when one driver has a speed that is significantly different from the flow of traffic - whether from excessive speeding or driving considerably slower) such that less speeding could be a factor increasing accidents if all other traffic is speeding and you are the sole slow car.

study on cause of accidents in the UK published 1998

Post by **Flobes** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:52 pm

angelescrest wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 am My recently retired mother ...90% of her driving is to the store or church. I think she liked how easy it was to get in and out of the car... She lives in an area that gets occasional winter snow, and AWD could be useful.

I think a CUV type of vehicle would probably suit her best... she could start using the CR-V... She... wants a recommendation from us.

Any other options we should consider?

I'm a female, Medicare-aged, safe driver, retired, live with winter snow. I own a CR-V AWD.

I just returned from Thanksgiving shopping. And oh so easily loaded a big heavy turkey, and just as painlessly slid it out once home. Because CR-V reardeck is at perfect, no-bend height. Watched others in the parking lot, most younger (and many males) fighting to get the bird into the trunk without dropping it, and we know that it's even harder to stretch and bend and deadlift to get Tom out.

"Effortless loading" just might be my favorite feature. My back ain't what it used to be!

My luxe Accord had a ginormous trunk, but lots of acrobatics were required to make use of its space. I doubt I'll ever own another sedan.

FWIW 9yo CRV and I live mid-nation, and we've been to the Atlantic thrice and the Pacific five times, with reliability and comfort plus lots of stuff.

Recommendation: Add ease of loading and unloading whatevers and groceries, into and out of the vehicle, to your mom's list of considerations.

Post by **dbr** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:13 pm

Flobes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:52 pm

angelescrest wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 am My recently retired mother ...90% of her driving is to the store or church. I think she liked how easy it was to get in and out of the car... She lives in an area that gets occasional winter snow, and AWD could be useful.

I think a CUV type of vehicle would probably suit her best... she could start using the CR-V... She... wants a recommendation from us.

Any other options we should consider?

I'm a female, Medicare-aged, safe driver, retired, live with winter snow. I own a CR-V AWD.

I just returned from Thanksgiving shopping. And oh so easily loaded a big heavy turkey, and just as paintlessly slid it out once home. Because CR-V reardeck is at perfect, no-bend height. Watched others in the parking lot, most younger (and many males) fighting to get the bird into the trunk without dropping it, and we know that it's even harder to stretch and bend and deadlift to get Tom out.

"Effortless loading" just might be my favorite feature. My back ain't what it used to be!

My luxe Accord had a ginormous trunk, but lots of acrobatics were required to make use of its space. I doubt I'll ever own another sedan.

FWIW 9yo CRV and I live mid-nation, and we've been to the Atlantic thrice and the Pacific five times, with reliability and comfort plus lots of stuff.

Recommendation: Add ease of loading and unloading whatevers and groceries, into and out of the vehicle, to your mom's list of considerations.

CRV is fine. All virtues mentioned are common to several choices of that type. The above represents good observations for just about anyone including seniors.

Post by **retiredjg** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:30 pm

angelescrest wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 am She drove a Honda Element (with their version of AWD), which she really enjoyed, mostly for its trunk space, although I don't think it's a particularly good car for someone her age, who no longer commutes to work, doesn't do road trips, nor does she have dogs or other things to keep in the back. 90% of her driving is to the store or church. I think she liked how easy it was to get in and out of the car, in terms of the height of the Element. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I wonder about the visibility in that car. She lives in an area that gets occasional winter snow, and AWD could be useful.

As I get older, the height of the vehicle is the absolute most important thing to me and is one reason I traded "higher" a year ago. Getting into an Forester or Outback or any other sort of sedan is difficult for people with bad knees. If she is already partial to the height of the Element, she is not going to be happy with an Outback. The trouble is she might not even realize it until the vehicle is bought.

The next most important issue is visibility - seeing over the steering wheel and out the back right side. This is an issue with a lot of sedans these days - the new styles are all metal back where there should be some glass to see through. And the seat is low like sitting in a lounge chair instead of sitting upright. Hard to drive safely that way.

Don't encourage her to get a car you think is suitable. At the risk of sounding harsh, what you think is important for a person her age may not be relevant because you have not yet lived in an older person's body. Things change.

Post by **dbr** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:53 pm

retiredjg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:30 pm
As I get older, the height of the vehicle is the absolute most important thing to me and is one reason I traded "higher" a year ago. Getting into an Forester or Outback or any other sort of sedan is difficult for people with bad knees. If she is already partial to the height of the Element, she is not going to be happy with an Outback. The trouble is she might not even realize it until the vehicle is bought.

That is an odd statement. Forester and Outback are not sedans and Forester I think was rated the top model for ease of entry and exit. I certainly find the Outback very good on that as with most CUV designs today.

The next most important issue is visibility - seeing over the steering wheel and out the back right side. This is an issue with a lot of sedans these days - the new styles are all metal back where there should be some glass to see through. And the seat is low like sitting in a lounge chair instead of sitting upright. Hard to drive safely that way.

I started looking at the Subarus in the first place when a Google search rated the Forester and then the Outback as 1-2 in ease of external visibility.

Post by **Christine_NM** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm

I'm 74 and don't like to climb up too high to get in, nor do I want to sit too low. Seat height has to be just right.

The best parts of my 2017 car that I would not have cared about 10 years ago are (1) the 16-inch wheels instead of 14-inch, (2) power seat controls for driver's seat, and (3) rear cam. The rest of the technology I ignore completely and drive the same as I did 40 years ago. I like the key fob but often just open the door with the key.

The trick is to find a car that lets you drive it. Increasingly difficult these days. A driverless car that really worked would be great, but I may not live to see it.

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